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Yeah, so I'm a a bit of a feminist -- not in any studied way. But a lot of my thoughts tend to lean in that direction. And yeah, I did get a tad worked up about seeing some people (not just one person), calling Lori a "whore" or "slut" on The Walking Dead. And I guess there's two reasons that this sort of thing bugs me. And it's not specific to this show, or to any of my lovely flisters. Lori is just a convenient example.
One reason can be (mostly) summed up by what I saw someone post today about the Fringe fandom:
-- Hm, well, coming from the perspective of someone who gets upset when people use words like ‘slut’ and ‘whore’ at any time—not just in Fringe fandom, or in fandom in general, but whenever—it’s because such words carry baggage with them, whether we intend them to or not. They carry negative implications about female sexuality. One of my favorite quotes about the use of these words is this: “[Slut-shaming] is about the implication that if a woman has sex that traditional society disapproves of, she should feel guilty and inferior.”
Whatever our reasons are for calling a character a slut or a whore are, the fact of the matter remains that we are, in the process, promoting a worldview that shames female sexualities, especially those that are considered to be “untraditional”. I understand that this is most often not the intention when calling someone a slut, but in the end, it’s not the intention behind the action that matters. It’s the results of the action. - vengeancebuiltmehastily
And that really is a huge part of why it just makes me crazy when I see this sort of thing. But on top of that , situationally, it just doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I am too open minded or too into the whole breakdown of what happens to people when they are thrust into these unimaginable fight-for-your-life hopeless situations. To me, Lori hooking up with Shane after weeks of thinking her husband is dead makes absolute sense to me. It's not discarding her life with Rick, and in fact, when she took the necklace off during the sex scene at the beginning of episode two, the way she handled it, I mean literally the way she touched the object, the way she moved, the way she laid it down, her body language was almost apologetic (if body language can be considered apologetic) and it was almost even what I would call reverent.
I don't have any strong feelings about the character, and I'm pretty sure that I don't even really like the show that much. But I was still shocked to see people reacting in such a negative way to her.
In the end though, I know the specific details don't really matter. No matter what a character has done, what her motivations are, or what kind of a person she is, when I hear those words it's always incredibly offensive to me. I have the same problem with the b-word the majority of the time -- but not always. Even when used in a supposedly positive manner. (Or maybe even especially.)
And don't even get me started on the whole "hbic" thing.
I don't really have much more to say on the matter except that 99% of the time I'm most likely to ignore it. There have been a lot of fictional ladies before Lori that have faced the same judgment -- Kate from Lost being a big one, along with Dexter's Rita -- whether they're being called sluts or bitches or whatever. So it's not exactly a shocker.
My thoughts on this matter are in no way comprehensive, but seeing that Fringe post made me feel like I should address it.
One reason can be (mostly) summed up by what I saw someone post today about the Fringe fandom:
-- Hm, well, coming from the perspective of someone who gets upset when people use words like ‘slut’ and ‘whore’ at any time—not just in Fringe fandom, or in fandom in general, but whenever—it’s because such words carry baggage with them, whether we intend them to or not. They carry negative implications about female sexuality. One of my favorite quotes about the use of these words is this: “[Slut-shaming] is about the implication that if a woman has sex that traditional society disapproves of, she should feel guilty and inferior.”
Whatever our reasons are for calling a character a slut or a whore are, the fact of the matter remains that we are, in the process, promoting a worldview that shames female sexualities, especially those that are considered to be “untraditional”. I understand that this is most often not the intention when calling someone a slut, but in the end, it’s not the intention behind the action that matters. It’s the results of the action. - vengeancebuiltmehastily
And that really is a huge part of why it just makes me crazy when I see this sort of thing. But on top of that , situationally, it just doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I am too open minded or too into the whole breakdown of what happens to people when they are thrust into these unimaginable fight-for-your-life hopeless situations. To me, Lori hooking up with Shane after weeks of thinking her husband is dead makes absolute sense to me. It's not discarding her life with Rick, and in fact, when she took the necklace off during the sex scene at the beginning of episode two, the way she handled it, I mean literally the way she touched the object, the way she moved, the way she laid it down, her body language was almost apologetic (if body language can be considered apologetic) and it was almost even what I would call reverent.
I don't have any strong feelings about the character, and I'm pretty sure that I don't even really like the show that much. But I was still shocked to see people reacting in such a negative way to her.
In the end though, I know the specific details don't really matter. No matter what a character has done, what her motivations are, or what kind of a person she is, when I hear those words it's always incredibly offensive to me. I have the same problem with the b-word the majority of the time -- but not always. Even when used in a supposedly positive manner. (Or maybe even especially.)
And don't even get me started on the whole "hbic" thing.
I don't really have much more to say on the matter except that 99% of the time I'm most likely to ignore it. There have been a lot of fictional ladies before Lori that have faced the same judgment -- Kate from Lost being a big one, along with Dexter's Rita -- whether they're being called sluts or bitches or whatever. So it's not exactly a shocker.
My thoughts on this matter are in no way comprehensive, but seeing that Fringe post made me feel like I should address it.
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this forever and ever amen.
i hate fandoms. you can't call women sluts and whores because you don't like them. ffs.
i do disagree with the bitch thing because i think it can be and should be and is being reclaimed, but i also understand why a lot of people still have issue with it. i'm just not one of them.
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"Reclaiming" bitch is not really something I'm interested in at all. The hbic thing most of all because despite the "we love these women" assertion that goes along with that, there are still so many problems with it, in my opinion. Not the least of which is that only certain "types" of women seem to be crowned with that moniker. Which is problematic for the "types" of women who get to be called hbics and the "types" of women that don't get to be called hbics. In general I just can't get behind it.
My feelings about these things haven't always been as strong. But more and more I find it just degrading in general.
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i do think there is a problem with who gets labeled an hbic and who doesn't and fandom reactions to that. i will definitely agree with that. fandom is really fucked in its way of deciding what female characters merit appreciation and who don't; i function largely outside of most fandom circles so i have no problem with it but i understand people who do. i don't think there's anything wrong with reclaiming bitch as a concept, since it's been traditionally thrown at women who stand up for themselves and that should be reclaimed and i don't like leaving words with people who sling them at me, but i know a lot of people who disagree with me. i'm a big reclaiming fan, though. and i run fuckyeahfiercebitches and i just post awesome ladies there, so i... clearly operate outside of most fandom usage. i think that
... this comment is much longer than i meant for it to be originally sorry. :D
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I guess it goes beyond the hbic thing too. Girls who call their friends bitches probably very often use (or at least THINK of) that word to describe other females who they dislike or who they disapprove of. So even if it is a reclaiming of the word to mean something more positive, I don't feel that it actually works in practice.
I think fierce bitch and hbic are really just synonyms don't you suppose?
Sorry for the edits.
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i mean, it's a process. i'd be lying if i said i never used bitch in negative contexts, but 90% of the time it's a positive one and something i'm working on. i just don't like leaving words in the hands of people i don't like. so i will take them back.
oh edits hello
i mean yes. :D
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I could never relate to Lost's Kate as a character. This was partly because like all Lost women, her character had no relevance to the main story. On paper she was suppose to be a strong woman, but rather than address her complicated past, she was reduced to being part of a love triangle where the men had all the power. I always felt guilty that I didn't like Kate because she got such a raw deal in fandom. I suspect there was a lot of resentment/jealousy toward her for being desired by the two hot male leads and for making them miserable. While writing my article, I realize Kate got the best treatment by the writers of all main Lost women, which is really sad.
Tomorrow I am hosting the F Word Fair & Forum at my university. The theme is about starting a conversation about what it means to be a feminist - such a dirty word these days. One of the events is a Barbie Jam where students get to remake Ken and Barbie dolls.
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I would like to read your article. By the end of the series, the last two seasons, I really understood Kate a lot. Her goals and actions fit together very nicely and they had very little to do with being a love-interest. Which I appreciated.
What does it mean to be a feminist? That's an interesting concept. I think the whole thing sort of sprang upon me rather suddenly. I was always a feminist thinker but my worldview wasn't always so colored by that reality. But things have changed and I want to blame (credit?) my Gender Studies class with that actually. It's one of those things you can't unsee. And It's not as though I didn't see before -- just not with such clarity.
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As for her sleeping with him. They're in the middle of an apocalypse and she thought her husband was never coming back. She's not a slut, she's human and freaked out. I don't understand fandom sometimes.
I'm not going to continue watching the show. Between the racist/misogynistic brothers and the wife abusing jackass in the last ep, I've seen more than enough. Add to that Shane and even Rick who apparently thinks the difference between men and women is that ladies are cold hard bitches and men never say cruel things---I mean, has he seen his show?
The whole thing makes me feel ranty. And the idea that of all of the horrible characters on that show the one fandom is attacking is Lori just boggles my mind.
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Yes, rant away my dear. It is welcome here.
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The idea here, though, that people are calling Lori a slut or a whore? That's crap. Absolutely absurd. End of the world setting where your odds of survival are sporadic at best, she thinks her husband is dead (for a month or two, going by the comics, which is a lifetime in their new setting), and she appears to be monogamous with the person she's currently sleeping with (someone who from her perspective has done nothing but help her AND her son stay alive through everything)... that doesn't at all scream slut to me. Was it because she immediately slept with her husband when he returned, effectively cutting Shane off? Having Rick show up, after she was told he was dead, was a complete game changer. Not only in terms of her resurfacing loyalty to her still-breathing husband, but also in terms of what she's realizing about Shane.
I've not been into the fandom to see these thoughts on Lori, but I have to wonder... what do they think of Shane? From the very start, they show that he has no respect for women and is quite a misogynist. Now, he's no Ed (Carol's husband, that Shane beat up at the waterside) but he certainly has a possessive, manipulative, controlling nature about him when it comes to women. It's obvious he feels he's superior to all women, and probably even most men for that matter. At least with Ed, you know you're dealing with a dumb asshole. But with Shane, it's hard to tell what to expect. He's the type of person that seems like a good guy - and still kind of is - but you can tell things just aren't right with him. What makes him so scary is that you don't really know how far he will take his opinions and ideals. How much of his 'ways' is he hiding?
I think having these harsher stereotypical characters from the onset of the series is a sort of commentary on human nature, that will also allow for character growth as these stubborn cliches will be forced to change and reassess their previous ways. We're in Oz: things start out black and white, then color will be added as the characters evolve. Which has the possibility for some to become worse, not better, simply by how they perceive their new environments but I think that will provide a great contrast to those that are changing for the better. This variety is my favorite thing about character studies.
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I don't really know if I believe it will be resolved in a more three-dimensional way. I don't have a lot of faith in that.
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The whole thing with girls being sluts because they have sex is old fashioned and stupid. It's 2010, grow up!