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this is not a wincest-free zone
My last post was created so I would be able to keep Marcus' story always and forever, because it was made of win, even if it wasn't exactly made of wincest. While I am not uninterested in hearing opposing viewpoints, that post does not need to be bogged down by a huge debate. So comments for the post below are now disabled Comments for this post are, however, not disabled. Feel free to debate all the do-da-day but please keep it civil.
A few things:
First, I didn't intend to offend anyone (wincesters and non-wincesters alike) by what was essentially a light-hearted and funny post. However, in my lack-of-sleep-induced-insanity, I must have had some semblence that it might, regardless of intent, because I f-locked it.
Regarding Wincest. Originally, my position on it was the same as I guess most people's are when they first hear of it: But? They're... brothers? But even then, even immediately, I found the idea of it humorous in the very least and it was definitely fun watching all the subtext on the show. Of course it doesn't hurt that there's a boatload of subtext.
(Just an FYI, the difference between canon & fandom, I think are clear. Wincest is not canon, IMO, and therefore any and all wincest discussion, is in reference to wincest as it exists in the fandom.)
I was never against wincest. I just didn't get it. But, after I'd read "wincest-if-you-squint" stories and then eventually read an excellent wincest fic, recced to me by![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
purestvixen I quickly changed my tune. This isn't some life-altering experience. Well, not for me anyway. It's fiction. To me, it's just not that big a deal.
But I guess I haven't really talked about this with my f-list. Not for any particular reason. I've recced a fic. I may have made passing references to it. I just never felt it was worthy of addressing. Ergo, I didn't think it was that big of a deal. But here we are.
Dear F-list,
I read Wincest.
Sincerely,
KC
P.S. That is not all I read.
See? Was that really necessary?
Regarding the great Wincest debate, we must get one thing straight right away, wincest does not equate incest for the simple fact that wincest=fiction. I can put it to you this way:
I think that we can all agree that something like... murder for instance, is probably a worse offense, morally speaking, than incest is. Right? (Of course, every person's morals are different, blah blah blah wincestcakes. You know what I mean.)
i.e. Committing murder in the real world, would be considered a much higher crime than committing consensual incest.
But for some reason, if I were to write a story in which a character had committed, what they thought to be justifiable homocide, less people would have a problem with it, than if I were to write Wincest. In fact, if that was my main character (and even if it weren't) they would probably be looked upon favorably or even in a heroic light for their actions.
How does that work?
For some reason, sexuality crosses a kind of imaginary line with some people. For whatever reason, it leaves the world of fiction and enters reality. But the truth is that it is not reality.
The bottom line, for me, is this. You either like it or you don't like it. Neither opinion is wrong. Neither opinion is better. When you like something you seek it out. When you don't like something, you avoid it. Easy.
But what this is not, is some great moral debate. Because fiction is fiction and reality is reality and that's just... that.
A few things:
First, I didn't intend to offend anyone (wincesters and non-wincesters alike) by what was essentially a light-hearted and funny post. However, in my lack-of-sleep-induced-insanity, I must have had some semblence that it might, regardless of intent, because I f-locked it.
Regarding Wincest. Originally, my position on it was the same as I guess most people's are when they first hear of it: But? They're... brothers? But even then, even immediately, I found the idea of it humorous in the very least and it was definitely fun watching all the subtext on the show. Of course it doesn't hurt that there's a boatload of subtext.
(Just an FYI, the difference between canon & fandom, I think are clear. Wincest is not canon, IMO, and therefore any and all wincest discussion, is in reference to wincest as it exists in the fandom.)
I was never against wincest. I just didn't get it. But, after I'd read "wincest-if-you-squint" stories and then eventually read an excellent wincest fic, recced to me by
purestvixen I quickly changed my tune. This isn't some life-altering experience. Well, not for me anyway. It's fiction. To me, it's just not that big a deal. But I guess I haven't really talked about this with my f-list. Not for any particular reason. I've recced a fic. I may have made passing references to it. I just never felt it was worthy of addressing. Ergo, I didn't think it was that big of a deal. But here we are.
FORMAL ANNOUNCEMENT
Dear F-list,
I read Wincest.
Sincerely,
KC
P.S. That is not all I read.
See? Was that really necessary?
Regarding the great Wincest debate, we must get one thing straight right away, wincest does not equate incest for the simple fact that wincest=fiction. I can put it to you this way:
I think that we can all agree that something like... murder for instance, is probably a worse offense, morally speaking, than incest is. Right? (Of course, every person's morals are different, blah blah blah wincestcakes. You know what I mean.)
i.e. Committing murder in the real world, would be considered a much higher crime than committing consensual incest.
But for some reason, if I were to write a story in which a character had committed, what they thought to be justifiable homocide, less people would have a problem with it, than if I were to write Wincest. In fact, if that was my main character (and even if it weren't) they would probably be looked upon favorably or even in a heroic light for their actions.
How does that work?
For some reason, sexuality crosses a kind of imaginary line with some people. For whatever reason, it leaves the world of fiction and enters reality. But the truth is that it is not reality.
The bottom line, for me, is this. You either like it or you don't like it. Neither opinion is wrong. Neither opinion is better. When you like something you seek it out. When you don't like something, you avoid it. Easy.
But what this is not, is some great moral debate. Because fiction is fiction and reality is reality and that's just... that.
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I had more to say but yeah...I'm too passive haha
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Cause barring all eloquence or lack-there-of and differences of opinion, you guys are my flisters for a reason.
I thought it would be better to just be diplomatic about things and address it as a whole so that you guys know my opinion about the whole deal.
Hopefully, any debate started in these comments threads will be intelligent and lacking of snappy snarky fighting.
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Some people enjoy it, some don't. Let's leave eachother alone, k?
I totally agree with your views!
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I have to admit a smidge of guilt at not checking out your recent fic - but...I don't do Jo. The same way many people didn't want to even SEE Anna's name in Lost Fanfic...so I do apologize, but it's that same kind of avoid/take in thing.
I was the same - 'incest? What? NO!' - and now...well now anything is game.
People need to stop whining and take responsibility for their own preferences. Or...non-preferences as the case may be.
Anyways: *HUGS*
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And, WORD on everything else.
Poor Ana-Lucia.
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Wow..I couldn't agree more with everything you just said.
It seems like lately people have been making a pretty big deal about the whole thing. I don't know, but I agree, some ppl like it some people don't but it doesn't mean people need to argue and debate about it, make it a big huge deal. Just have your opinion and stay away from what you don't like. Simple as that.
Anyhoo, I just wanted to give you an amen! :D
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It's a personal preference and it's not so much the "do we like it or not" because that's about as useless as arguing over ships. The idea is separating what is real and what is fiction and recognizing that one has nothing to do with the other.
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just wanted to say, I'm sorry to hear that you're having probs with comments (I don't know the whole story, so i may be totally off!)... I feel like such an outsider on all of these fandom problems (is this what fandom wank is?!)...
This is maybe because i'm only a reader which might mean i'm slightly less invested?? hm.
Anyway, this is probably none of my business. But IMO it's just like you said:
(I)you read what (I)you like, (I)you ignore what (I)you don't. simple, straighforward.
People have different tastes. even if it's not exactly my thing, you won't see me dropping by and flaming a wincest/slash/popslash/*whatever* fic or comment. I have better things to do, such as looking for fics and pairings that I do enjoy. *grins*
Anyway, it's a pain in the ass... sorry you have to deal with this crap. Having to justify yourself on your own LJ is ridiculous. *hugs*
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I do like Dean/Jo and even though I read it, I don't write wincest. (Yet. Haha.) I am not all that comfortable with boxes. I like to be able to read or say or think whatever I want without being pinned into some kind of default opinion.
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I agree. Categories are confining. (although convenient for communities and the like, obviously). But they're huge generalizations.
All in all, I like het and I'm not slash fan. BUT I would read a Sam/Dean angsty UST story over a Sam/Ellen PWP any day. I guess that makes me flexible. or particular. definitely not 'inside the [het vs slash] box', though.
I don't know anything about LOST fandom (or wank). Watched (and loved) the first season, but it just got a little too... weird and random for me. Too many unanswered questions, followed by more (and more) unanswered questions. The pretty boys were not enough to keep my interest piqued.
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hahaha. more than that, fans enjoy knowing what the fuck is going on. :P
I couldn't deal anymore. Remember in the season finale when Jack Kate and Sawyer were captured, and there was that huge frickin' mushroom cloud or electromagnetic explosion or whatever the hell that was that came out of nowhere?... that was where they lost me.
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OMG!WTF?Polar Bear!
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It's excellent and kind of addresses the whole, "but we're so overwhelmed with wincest" argument.
Which hey, seems pretty true if you're looking on livejournal. But there were those days (those very few days) when Wincest wasn't something I was interested in at all (oh how they flew by so fast!) and I somehow managed to avoid it and not feel all oppressed by the fandom.
I guess maybe, because I don't take it personally? And because I didn't really have a moral issue with it? (Cause um, it's fanfiction!)
To me, it was like a ship that you don't sail. I mean, stripped bare, the wincest/non-wincest debate very much resembles a ship war - with like, morals and judgement and stuff.
And yes, I totally agree with you on the consensual aspect of things. Whatever you wanna do, dude. Not my business or anyone else's business.
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I think you should be re-instated as KING, Marcus.
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Dean wakes up in bed with his cousin... a WOMAN.
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SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! I have a fangirl!
*glomp!*