09. Starbuck. Let us count the ways. (Single Digits Guys!)

[krickets]

So this is a bit self-serving, I'll say that right off the bat. I was looking for some Starbuck character meta earlier and couldn't find any. So, I figured I'd see what thinky thoughts you guys have about her. (I know they're floating around up there in that grey matter somewhere!)

According to this poll, Starbuck is the undisputed favorite with BSG fans. Or, at least, with the BSG fans who are taking my polls. (Let's disregard for a moment that I didn't say, "pick your favorite," hahaha. I think it stands to reason that most people would pick their favs when asked to choose between characters.)

For me personally, Starbuck is unequivocally my favorite fictional character of all time. Hands down. But I'm sure there are many who dislike her or are neutral towards her. So, I wanna hear about it. And why. There is absolutely no judgement here, every single opinion is welcome and wanted.

It can be from the superficial (I don't like her hair/I like her hair!) to the philosophical. I don't care. I wanna know.

1, 2, 3, GO!

Comments

I'll vote NAY.

[whyoffry.livejournal.com]

I've never cared for her because she has no discipline. She is insubordinate and makes shitty decisions regularly. She's embodies many characteristics I dislike. However, I think she tries and there is plenty of genuine feeling. She isn't entirely at fault for who she is (hello fucked up childhood). Add another however! I don't see much growth there, but I haven't been paying much attention because she bugs me so much. I'm looking forward to seeing the NEW KARA that is talked about in the interviews. I'm anxious to see where this goes with her.

Katee Sackhoff plays her brilliantly. I couldn't see anyone else portraying her. Some of the best scenes in the show feature her, so kudos lady!

Re: I'll vote NAY.

[fridge-buzz-now.livejournal.com]

I just wanted to say that your first few sentences were why I didn't like her originally, until I began to notice that her crappy decision making skills make her one of the more complex and interesting characters in the BSG universe. I am also looking forward to this Shiny New Earthbound Kara.

Re: I'll vote NAY.

[crickets.livejournal.com]

Hopefully season 4 Kara surprises you. Based on how the last season ended, I've a feeling she's got a lot of angst coming her way though. Which is cool if you like the angst. (Which I happen to! So yay!)

Some of the best scenes in the show feature her → I think, in the very least, even if you don't particularly like Starbuck, it's hard to deny that she's compelling to watch.

Re: I'll vote NAY.

[nightxade.livejournal.com]

I'm agreeing with everything you say. My problem with her is that she's never shown any growth, so I too am looking forward to this New Kara.

Re: I'll vote NAY.

[schmiss.livejournal.com]

she has no discipline. She is insubordinate and makes shitty decisions regularly.

Aw, I love that about her. BUT my other favorite characters are Tigh and Gaius, so... I think I just like jerks.

[akzseinga.livejournal.com]

I simply love her. And Helo. And Sam. I'm Kara/Helo/Sam fan and I'm proud of it!

There, I said it. But I guess you knew that already ;)

[crickets.livejournal.com]

Hah! I do! I'm also happy to see your old layout back up! You had that back before I ever watched this show and I thought it was "cool looking." Now that I know who belongs to the tops of those heads I'm just... *sigh*


LOL well it looks like you changed it already... so nevermind. You know which one I mean though! :D

[rap541.livejournal.com]

See, I like Starbuck because in a lot of ways she's a very unlikable person and yet she does have an inner core of "must do whats right". Now, that makes her moments of darkness more difficult - her near murder of Gaeta because she just wanted to hurt someone, her casual adultery with Lee, her *hateful8 way of treating Lee like she loved him and marrying Sam the next day - its disappointing but it's very real.

[crickets.livejournal.com]

she does have an inner core of "must do whats right"

She really does. I think that's apparent from the start for me. She's honest but she's brutal about it. Very much the antithesis of Apollo which is what she's supposed to be. Both inherently heroic, but both go about it in two totally different ways. Regarding her duties, with the exception of the incident with Zach, Starbuck doesn't frak up. She may stomp around like the schoolyard bully, and say (true) things that piss off the people around her, but at the end of the day she gets the job done and you can count on her.

And I agree that some of her actions in season three weren't that smart and certainly aren't going to win anybody over. But honestly, they just made me even more sad for her?

ETA: I wanted to add this about season 3. As much as I love the Leoben/Starbuck dynamic, I can't deny that he really did take something from her in New Caprica. I mean, he stripped her of her power when she was with him, she made him believe in something that wasn't real (Kacey), and in a way I think he made her believe in her destiny, and he made her care for him too. (When she holds his hand.) Etc. And I do think that changed her character forever. She's not the same person she was in season one or even season two, and she probably never will be again. Especially given the final events of s3.

[savepureness.livejournal.com]

Saying something bad about Starbuck would mean yo chew my own tongue, savvy? One of the main reasons I love her is that I can almost totally identify myself with her -- even throughout that silly Scar story when she actually made me so angry I felt like kicking her moving image -- and such a selfish person as I am would never say anything disregarding of self, right? ;)

[crickets.livejournal.com]

Savvy! *salutes*

Yeah I think I identify with her as well, and maybe that's why she's so dear to me as far as characters go. It is often the ones we identify with most that are our favorites. So what does that say about me?

I'm not really a Harry Potter fan, I read the books and watch the movies and discuss a little but I don't participate in fandom. But I remember a berjillion years ago I said to my friend Bradley. "I like Hermione the best."

And he said, "You would! She's so bossy!" Hahaha. Looks like nothing's changed!

[airings.livejournal.com]

I like Kara because she's a badass. And a pimp.

Seriously though, I think I like her a lot because she's tough, strong, smokes cigars, gets drunk, deeply flawed, doesn't take orders from no one, and her honesty is refreshing.

She's not my favorite though (hi, Gaius!) but she's my favorite femal fictional character ever.

[crickets.livejournal.com]

her honesty is refreshing

I totally agree. (With all the other stuff you mentioned too.)

[jellyfrog.livejournal.com]

She's my favorite fictional character of all time too (or at least television character; I haven't considered other media). Which is a little surprising since the long-standing previous holder of that title was Jean-Luc Picard. They are... not similar.

As for why... hmm. Well, without question her frakked-up-ness is key. She's strong, tough, heroic, but also vulnerable and incredibly flawed. And I'm not sure if this makes sense, but as this hotshot Viper pilot she's kind of a romantic figure, yet she's not romanticized. She sweats, her hair gets messed up, she doesn't wear make-up. And when she screws up it's because she really screwed up, not because things were out of her control or her motives were misunderstood. She's not always sympathetic, but she's always dynamic. You can't take your eyes off her.

[crickets.livejournal.com]

her frakked-up-ness is key → Why is it that the more emotionally flawed the character, the more we love them? Strange.

yet she's not romanticized. She sweats, her hair gets messed up, she doesn't wear make-up. And when she screws up it's because she really screwed up, not because things were out of her control or her motives were misunderstood → Yes, yes, yes, and YES.

She's not always sympathetic, but she's always dynamic. You can't take your eyes off her. → Agreed. I think there are times when it's not just the audience that doesn't get Starbuck (why did she do that?), but just as much, I think Starbuck doesn't get Starbuck. She's her own worst enemy in some ways, and she's also a big fat question mark - even to herself.

[gigglemonster.livejournal.com]

I like her hair! ;)
No - but I guess I DO like her hair. I liked her hair longer, beginning of S3 hair. It was pretty.
I love Starbuck. I think she's just so interesting to watch on screen. She could be making a peanut butter and jelly sandwhich and it would probably still be pretty damn interesting. And I don't know if that's just Katee Sackhoff or the character herself - but either way she has such a presence on screen that is fascinating to watch.
Plus she kicks so much ass and she's crazy and awesome and hilarious and..I love her!

[crickets.livejournal.com]

She could be making a peanut butter and jelly sandwhich and it would probably still be pretty damn interesting. → Hahaha. Well... okay. Wouldn't it be so much cooler to watch her kick that sandwich's ass, though?

[becisvolatile.livejournal.com]

When I grow up, I want to be Starbuck. Initially that’s all I really have to say. It’s just that frakking simple… except, it’s never that simple.

Here’s my sleeve and here’s my heart, let me go even further than saying that Starbuck is my favorite character: I’ll go so far as to say that it’s because of Starbuck that BSG is my favorite show. And that’s a pretty logical connection if you consider a couple things.

A basic principle of television is that it provides a point of intellectual and emotional engagement for an audience. I won’t watch if I don’t find a point of engagement. For me, it’s Kara. She has the swagger that I wish I did. She has the menfolk that I wish I did and she’s, quite literally, “special”… which I think a lot of people wish they were.

I wrote a much more substantial meta on this stuff that, maybe one day, I will post. But that’s really it, she has just the right combination of attributes that I wish I had. Even her “bad” habits have her ending up in bed with hot men and kicking arse.

And even when her character behaves like I shit I’m still compelled to love her because if I identify with her and hate her for doing something, well… isn’t that like hating myself?

To clarify, I know that I’m not Starbuck. And you probably think I’m a nut, but it’s a well-studied fact that people need to identify with character to invest in a show, Starbuck is my “in” to BSG, so she’s my favorite. That’s the cliff-notes version anyway.

*runs off to go and shoot down imaginary Raiders*

[crickets.livejournal.com]

A basic principle of television is that it provides a point of intellectual and emotional engagement for an audience. I won’t watch if I don’t find a point of engagement. For me, it’s Kara. She has the swagger that I wish I did. She has the menfolk that I wish I did and she’s, quite literally, “special”… which I think a lot of people wish they were.

Exactly. I think it's one of the reasons I love Chief so much too because he engages the very human part of you. He's the everyman, not to perpetuate knuggledragger stereotypes, but he is. (Barring the last five minutes of s3.) And I know that this isn't about Chief, but I think it's the same kind of thing you're talking about here.

And Starbuck isn't the only character I identify with on the show, because they are all so multi-faceted. (At one time or another.) That it's hard not to itentify with all of them from time to time. Because they're all so human. But.. I definitely identify with her the most.

*grabs a gun and joins you*

[37-soul-sister.livejournal.com]

I used to love Starbuck. I loved her in the mini and in the first season. She was spunky and wouldn't take any crap from anyone. But when she started her relationship with Sam, I started to not like her as much. I felt like her whole Lee-Sam triangle was so forced and didn't make ANY sense to me at all. I hated her relationship decisions and the fact that it was so melodramatic. It felt like they were taking up so much show time on Starbuck's love life. 1) What is so cool about who she used to be was that she was so independent. 2) it made the show feel more immature because a lot of the choices she made and the things she did were immature. I would have rather seen a more mature relationship develop, like Adama and Roslin's. (I guess I'm just jealous that Kara and Lee get so much face time with their relationship because their the "young, pretty ones," so now I resent her character.) Also, how many times can you repeat saying that Kara has a "special destiny?" I GET IT ALREADY, GOSH! I hope in the 4th season, she goes back to either the old, independent, girl power starbuck, or matures completely.

I do LOVE Katee Sackhoff and I think she plays starbuck wonderfully. Some of her choices have been really powerful. For example, the scene where she tells Adama that Zack's death was her fault. Or when Lee shouts that he loves her on NC, and she can't bring herself to scream it back. I was in tears for both of those moments. Good stuff.

Sorry, that was long, but those are my reasons.

[crickets.livejournal.com]

I'm going to have to disagree with you about her relationship with Sam, just for myself personally. I thought it made a lot of sense. I think it was rushed in part to get her back to the fleet, but beyond that I've really enjoyed the way that's played out. And maybe it's because I'm not so easily annoyed by soap-type drama? I dunno. And I'm not really a staunch shipper in any direction. Maybe it's because Kara has so much chemistry with pretty much anybody she's on screen with? I dunno.

I think the reason Roslin and Adama don't get as much face time when it comes to their personal relationship has everything to do with the fact that these are our two leaders and zero to do with Starbuck.

While the audience is smart and perfectly capable of saying "okay but they're people too," there's something to be said for keeping them respectible and trustworthy. And if we were given too much of the romance, the audience might well be asking themselves "but where are their priorities?" Which is why the flashbacks with them on New Caprica were included, I think. To show that, when she wasn't the president, and when the cylons were a non-issue, these two people very likely would end up together. But after that, they have the rest of the human race to look after.

And who knows, maybe they're frakking in the supply closet while no one is looking and we'll find out in season four? Maybe? Hahaha.

Anyway, back to Starbuck. I can see how the "special destiny/chosen one/big damn hero" thing could get old. I personally find that compelling, but I do understand that that's a huge peeve for the fans. It's often the special kids that get picked on the most. Heh. (I so didn't mean it to sound like that.)

[demonqueen666.livejournal.com]

I think it's because she somehow amazingly manages to be two very difficult things at the same time, 1) badass and 2) real.

Starbuck is undeniably a frakked-up character, but she's screwed up and complicated in a way that's so very real and believable, unlike a lot of the "I am a TORMENTED SOUL" screw-ups that tend to be written for television (she even looks like a real woman: she's beautiful, but not over the top). And yet, she's always 100% totally badass, taking names and blowing shit up and saving the day. And she sells it. Half the time you'll see a character like this and you find yourself going "Yeah, yeah, she's THE TOUGH CHICK, we get it. *rolleyes*" But Starbuck sells it. She's the best pilot. The best shot. She busts the ass of those below her and socks those above her in the face and does shots and plays pyramids and stabs with knives. And you really believe that she can. Because she's Starbuck.

[crickets.livejournal.com]

I totally think you kind of hit the nail on the head here with number 2: real. I couldn't agree more. We've seen badasses, we've seen frakked-up characters with more emotional baggage than you can shake a stick at, but nobody convinces me like Starbuck does.

[fridge-buzz-now.livejournal.com]

I love her because she's super-strong and even though she's very vulnerable, she hides it well. This may make for some emotional problems, but it's good watchin'!

[crickets.livejournal.com]

That's damn straight! Good watching indeed.

[ack-attack.livejournal.com]

I love her because:

a. I have a huge crush on Katee Sackhoff
b. She kicks ass and takes names
c. But is still vulnerable
d. And the more frakked up a character is, the more I seem to love them (Sawyer? yes)
e. She is fun to icon haha
f. She's got the best taste in men ever
g. I love her relationship with Adama. Senior and Junior.

[crickets.livejournal.com]

d. I agree wholeheartedly. I had to come around on Sawyer though, but I just don't trust the Lost writers as much as I trust BSG writers. By a mile. And for me, it took them a lot longer to get the meat of Sawyer, the "why should I like this person?" aspect. But now that I do I see him and his actions even in season 1 in a different light. And I know there are people who saw that from the beginning, but I wasn't one of them. So I guess in the same way, perhaps Starbuck is one that has to grow on you!

f. Wordy McWorderstein. Just. YES.

[jay1022.livejournal.com]

I'm kind of split down the middle on Kara.

I love the fact that she will tell you like it is and not care about the consequences of her words. The fact that she has that freedom I think endears her to so many, I mean who wouldn't want to be able to do that? She also is one tough cookie and will stand up for herself and for those that she cares for and she doesn't care who it is that she has to fight.

But the emotional side of Kara I can't stand. I know that comes from a screwed up childhood but I just can't wrap my brain around someone being afraid and running in the opposite direction when they are happy because it seems so alien to them. The fact that she is a loose cannon at times also makes her unlikeable. Let's face it, had the Colonies not been nuked, Kara most likely would have had a court martial and been kicked out of the military by now.

[37-soul-sister.livejournal.com]

I totally agree.

[killmotion.livejournal.com]

I don't think I love Kara like you do but I certainly don't hate her and I'm not exactly neutral. I'm on the positive side. There are moments when I do like her even more and can definitely see why lots of people do love, love, love her. She's funny, kickass and a damn good fighter pilot. Not to mention pretty.

[crickets.livejournal.com]

Yeah I'm sure a lot of people feel that way about her. Hahaha. I don't expect everybody to love her like I do hahaha. That would be crazy!!!!

[barefoot-chick.livejournal.com]

Okay, I agree that Starbuck kicks ass, but I'm still kind of meh on her. Maybe too much of my focus is on Roslin. I don't know. Starbuck was never my favorite character. I just think I"m kind of neutral on her.

[37-soul-sister.livejournal.com]

Ya, I kind of feel the same way. Very neutral. And for the same reasons. lol

[cylune9.livejournal.com]

I love Starbuck - she's my second favorite character after Lee. However, there is some stuff I don't like about her and I believe most of it derives from being the writer's favorite. There's so many times I can hear how "special" she is and frankly, I don't care much about her "special destiny". She gets most of the juicy storylines and angst while my favorite gets turned into a fat buffon and has no consistent story ark. Maybe it's jealousy on my part.

Anyway, rant over - I do love Starbuck: Act of Contrition & You Can't Go Home again are my favorite episodes of the series so far... it's just that I wish the writers would just stop playing favorites.

[crickets.livejournal.com]

Yeah I see how Apollo's been done a disservice in a few storylines. Although, I dunno about the whole "playing favorites" thing. But I have loved so much of what Apollo has done... especially at the end of season three.

[viridian.livejournal.com]

I loved her when I realized that she wasn't supposed to be a heroine. At least, not undisputedly - I love that she's frak-up. I love she's mouthy and insubordinate and makes terrible decisions and is just 32 flavors of screwed up. I like that she's got this undefinable grace in spite of it.

Also, at some point I realized that Katee Sackhoff can act circles around most of the currently "popular" celebrities you see elsewhere. She's fantastic and good acting will always make me love a character.

[main-titles.livejournal.com]

She's the only reason I watch Bionic Woman. It was actually hilarious how much she stole the spotlight. She outshined basically everyone on that show.

[main-titles.livejournal.com]

Starbuck has some of the best moments and lines in the series. And she's, well, she's STARBUCK. I disagree with her on many counts... but you cannot deny she's got style. :D

[crickets.livejournal.com]

Style in-deed.

[alissabobissa.livejournal.com]

I love her 'cause she needs a hug in the worst way but would totally clean anyone's clock who tried to give it to her. Also, it would be so much fun having her drink you under the table. :D

For me personally, Starbuck is unequivocally my favorite fictional character of all time. Hands down.
Ditto.

[crickets.livejournal.com]

but would totally clean anyone's clock who tried to give it to her

Aww Kara. It's sad but it's true. Hahaha.

A little late to the party....

[runawaynun.livejournal.com]

I'm torn about Starbuck.

I love season 1 Starbuck. I love the cocky attitude -- "'Cause we're on drugs?" -- the swagger but the still vulnerable nature of her character, probably best exemplified in "Flesh and Bone." I love how she'd call Lee out when he was being a prissy little bitch. I also love how her faith (even though she'd deny it) and her sense of rightness cause her to betray her father figure and find the arrow of Apollo for Roslin, whom really, after Kara's interactions with her, probably seemed like a crazy lady. That exemplifies what I love about her.

Season 3 kinda stripped her of all of that. The fun, cocky swagger became darker and more self-defensive instead of a natural extension of her personality. They made her a very ugly character during season three and there were only glimmers of what I loved of her in various episodes. (Ironically, they made Laura a darker, uglier character in season 3, but that made me love her more. I don't know what that says about me.) That, and they were shoving Kara's special destiny down our throats -- from characters that it seemed out of character for them to do so. Well, I guess now it kinda makes sense as to why Sam was so gung ho about her special destiny.

I'm hoping that this new Kara will have the elements of her that I love. I want the cockiness and the swagger and the vulnerability. I'm guessing we'll get the passionate conviction. I just hope we lose a bit of what I disliked about her in season 3.

(Oh, and I hated that ZOMG! BABY! storyline. Starbuck should have been outside, blowing shit up with Anders and Tyrol.)

Re: A little late to the party....

[crickets.livejournal.com]

I agree she's different now. But I kind of like the dark side. Kind of how you like the dark side of Laura. (I like that too! OMG YESSS!) I don't really have any predictions about how they're going to handle the character in season four, but I really do have faith that it will be great whatever it is.