vidding, effects, and KC's big fat mouth

[krickets]

This is in response to various vidding discussions that have been circulating about use of effects.

I don't believe that you're looking far enough if the only videos you're seeing recced and getting recognition are full of effects. To see this, you just have to check the last few of my recent recs. Or, for that matter, the recs over at veni, vidi, vids! Clearly, if you just look, you'll find something completely different.

I won't name names, but I know the two (non-lj) communities that are the basis for such opinions, and those are not, are quite far from, the beginning and the ending of the vidding community. And if you aren't looking outside of those very narrow boxes? Then you're just not looking hard enough.

And in regards to the question of whether or not vidding with effects is better or worse than vidding without? It's a completely bogus one. It's not even a question at all.

There are crappy videos with effects and without. Just as there are great videos with both. It's not a measure of what's good or bad. The vid itself is the measure of that. And you've just got to accept that sometimes videos that you don't like are going to get a lot of questionable praise from various corners. *cough*YouTube*cough* And sometimes the fact is that maybe that vid just isn't for you? You can't please everybody.

And you know what? Whether it's on LJ or YouTube or anywhere else? You just have to stop looking at the numbers and stop comparing yourself to other people. There will always be somebody better than you. There will always be somebody smarter, more tech savvy, more artistic, and braver than you. That's not a judgment on anyone's skills, but a simple fact based on the history of the world since... I dunno, ever.

My point is, if you're trying to quantify success by comment count? This will always be a competition.

For me, and I think for a lot of vidders out there, it's just not. When you're putting yourself up to be judged, then yes, there is that element of "will I be accepted?" And when someone is quite literally judging your work, it's hard not to take that personally.

But the action of vidding itself? Doesn't have to be that way.

This thing we do, sharing and commenting and creating and learning from each other? Does not have to be a competition. If you are on my flist and you have made even one vid? Then I have probably learned something from you. And I don't say that arbitrarily, so if you think I can't possibly mean you, you're definitely wrong.



A kind of side note: I also want to say that much of what has been said, putting down vids that use effects? Has struck me as incredibly condescending to everyone who uses effects in their vids and everyone who's ever liked a vid with effects. I'm sure no one said that any vid that uses effects is pure trash, but that's the overwhelming impression that has been given.

Feel free to disagree. Or not. I know this isn't going to sit well with several on my flist and I'm willing to accept that responsibility. If you're on my flist, you know that I am usually pretty opinionated but that it's also totally okay with me if you don't agree with me.

ETA: I'm not saying we don't strive for greatness (or even just a reflection of truth) or that we don't vid with some kind of audience in mind. If you think about it, that's what all artists do. But the process does not have to be a painful one.

Comments

[gigglemonster.livejournal.com]

You?
Are my hero
Ilu and I totally agree with everything that's been said here.
Especially your side note - it's really made me look at a lot of my recent vids (and ALL of my vids for that matter) and made me just feel awful about them. I'm sure it wasn't inentional but that's how I personally feel and it makes me so angry and upset.
Anyhoo.
I agree with you, 100%. I feel like, whenever I think something I should just point to you and you speak because you say everything I'm thinking and you do it with style m'dear, you do it with style
♥

[crickets.livejournal.com]

I know that a lot of this has really hit home with you and I totally understand why. And part of why I wrote this was to address that issue. *hugs* ♥

[ageless-aislynn.livejournal.com]

I ran straight into a big wall of fandom wank that I didn't even know was there! *crash!* O_O Dude, I should read my flist before I offer an opinion on something, especially when it's A LOT FREAKIN' BIGGER than I had any idea. O_O

Seriously, if any of what you said about putting down vids that use effects was directed at me, I added on an extra little bit at the end of my post, trying to clarify what I meant. That whole thing I wrote? Was meant for me, not pointing fingers at anybody else, mainly because I realized I was NOT doing a vid I wanted to do just because I was worried it wouldn't be "flashy" enough for them. You know, the "them" that everybody wants to please? o_O ;)

And it dawned on me that I could make it flashy but that wouldn't mean I was making it good, you know? :S And also, it started to bug me that I felt like I just wasn't "allowed" to make a simple, low-effects vid because fandom in general wouldn't like it. :S And I just read an article about the way vidders used to have to do the whole 2 VCR thing to vid and it made me think I really needed to get myself back to basics when it comes to vidding, not worrying about "How flashy can I make this?" but instead "Where's the heart in this vid? How can I best tell the story I want to tell?" So that was what I was talking about. Just unfortunately I said it on Big Fandom Wank Day. And I forgot to even get my commemorative T-shirt. :( ;)

Blargh. Anyway, with the amount of vids I see on a daily basis, I think I can safely say I've seen a ton of bad and good vids with no effects and a ton of bad and good vids with lots of effects. I have a lot of criteria that I use to judge vids and not one of them involves a snap judgment of "Oh, it has effects, therefore it is bad/good."

That said, I'm now going to go hop in my time machine and rewind this day. ;)

PS - Don't actually worry about seeing that extra bit I added onto my post because that post is about to go bye-bye. I know I didn't mean it in an inflammatory way but in the light of everything else that's going on here, I don't think it's appropriate to leave it.

[crickets.livejournal.com]

I really wish you hadn't taken yours down. That makes me feel like a total jerk, haha. But I understand why you did. But please know, that it wasn't just you it was coming from a few different corners, actually.

I honestly think you should just go with your gut when it comes to what you want to vid. It's the only way you'll ever be happy with what you're doing. If you think something would look nice and enhance your vid? Then do it. But don't do something just because you think other people expect it of you. Cause that's just nuts. And I totally agree with you there.

This post didn't really come from a place of anger, but rather of just wanting to throw in my two cents, my experiences. Because they seem to be categorically different.

[ageless-aislynn.livejournal.com]

No worries, I didn't take it down because of what you said, I took it down because there was no way I was going to wade out into such wank as blind as I did. It totally looked like I was Picking A Side, when if you looked at what I was saying about effects and using them well and all that, you should've been able to see that I wasn't. 'Cause dude, why would I pick a side and say, "Oh, I'm never going to use effects again/only going to use effects out the wazoo!" Every vid is different and you have to take them on their own merits, after all. (Honestly, I didn't even KNOW there were sides until after I'd posted that and came back from dinner. Then I looked at what was going on and was all *headdesk* Geez, I need to get on the fandom wank newsfeed so I KNOW these things! ;) That was the very first I'd heard about there being a wide-spread dispute over whether effects meant you were bad or good! o_O )

Anyway, hopefully y'all know me well enough to know I'd never presume to tell somebody that they can't/can use effects in their vids or their vids will be bad/good. That's just crazy talk, man! ;)

And like I said, if I'm going to take a hard stand and offend a bunch of people, then I'll do it when I have all the facts, not because I tripped and fell into a big puddle of fandom wank. ;) I wrote up a new entry because it was bugging me, so if you read the first one, I hope you'll read the second, where I tried to clarify what I meant.

And now, let us all eat cookies and forget this foolishness. *offers cookies* ;)

[bradcpu.livejournal.com]

*applause*

That is all. :)

[crickets.livejournal.com]

*bows*

Thank you.

[crickets.livejournal.com]

I agree it's not better or worse, it's just different. Apples and oranges, like you said.

And... Yeah, it's probably better if you stay away from the edge, hehehe. It just happened that three people on my flist had similar complaints within days of each other. I couldn't just sit back and let that be the only opinion that was heard. (As much as I love my flist, and I do.)

[lostonbroadway.livejournal.com]

Just wanted to say that your videos are the shit and if it is a competition (which it isn't, of course) then you win. Hands. Down.

Suck on that, bitches ♥

[crickets.livejournal.com]

Hahaha, well thank you for the vote of confidence. *salutes* ;)

[lostonbroadway.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I had never even seen a really good video with effects (that wasn't overly done to the point of distraction) until your "Hide and Seek" vid and I was completely blown away. I just though, "Wow. I didn't know you could do that." I love seeing how different people do different things with the same material. Sometimes the videos with effects achieve better/cooler results and sometimes they don't. I don't consider myself a big effects person in any sense of the word, but I love your vids. They are what they are: awesome.

The end.

[crickets.livejournal.com]

I think that good editing sets vids apart. Effects are cool and if they can be done in a way that enhances your vids then by all means, use them. But I'm definitely of the mindset that good vids can exist in either format and to suggest that the only vids that get recognition are those full of effects is just hogwash. Coloring is fun. ;)

[dazzlebug.livejournal.com]

I reeeeeeeeeeeeeally love it when you make your post during whatever wank is happening, KC. Like Dayl said, you do it with such style and such... well, lack of obvious bias (meaning that you don't refute either side of the argument as "wrong" or invalid). Bravo!

[crickets.livejournal.com]

Ah, thank you Kayla. I only wish I could have been around to perpetuate the conversation. *glomps*

[dazzlebug.livejournal.com]

Welcome back! I'm so glad you're back :D

[pauly26.livejournal.com]

It's like a cake the icing is the effects but the sponge bit is the base and where you have to start from..anyway I'm gonna start talking sense now.. I'm not really sure what effects means? Like we have colouring which I am too lazy or untalented to get to grips with (ish really pretty when I watch vids.) One thing I don't like much is the still graphics people put over or around the vid window it just kinda sits there not doing anything and I get distracted. I think if you're getting distracted by these 'effects' then they are being detrimental to your video. But without effects it's very hard to get people to fall off their chairs or drool at the mouth while watching your video so I am definetly for them but used appropiately.

[crickets.livejournal.com]

Naw man, it's all cake. Hehehe. I don't know if I consider coloring an effect. I mean sure of course it is... but I mean more like masking and crazy transitions etc. At least that's what I feel like many of the earlier discussions were referring to.

But without effects it's very hard to get people to fall off their chairs or drool at the mouth while watching your video

I disagree. I really disagree. Well not about the "hard" part cause making a good vid should be hard. But I think that a well edited, well executed, well thought out vid can make me drool and fall off my seat just as easily without any effects at all.

[turquoisetumult.livejournal.com]

I also want to say that much of what has been said, putting down vids that use effects? Has struck me as incredibly condescending to everyone who uses effects in their vids and everyone who's ever liked a vid with effects.

I don't know if you're referring to my post or Aislynn's (probably Ais's since I don't think you read mine much), but I wasn't trying to say that at all!

Of course, you can have feeling and effects all in one. Dayln's "One Year Only" and "No One Else" are the prime examples when I think of that, as are a few other people's works. But there are so many high-tech vids I've seen, on Youtube especially, that I personally don't find any *feeling* for simply because the high-tech stuff is distracting from the meaning behind the vid, yet people love them, and I don't understand why. Is it wrong of me to believe that maybe people have just gotten so accustomed to watching the high-tech, flashy vids that even if they have no feeling/story behind them, they'll still love it. Not that those vids shouldn't be praised to some extent(because obviously it takes effort to meticulously cut all those clips), but I just feel like vidders/viewers have fallen into a superficial pattern where if it doesn't have some sort of "flash," it's not worth the time.

To reiterate, I wasn't being conscending toward the "flashy/artistic" types who successfully manage to combine both feeling and/or story with beat use/coloring/etc.

I'm not familiar with those reccing places, but the ones I know of haven't really recced a WMM (or a simple vid) in a long time. I'll have to check out those recs.

Anywho, that's my response.

Now I feel like the biggest asshole in the world. For something that just started out as a rant in my own LJ. Yay! *eyeroll*

[crickets.livejournal.com]

You shouldn't feel like an asshole. Maria. I'm sorry. It wasn't just you and I didn't mean to single you out or anything. And I wish I wouldn't have gotten sick so I could have responded to this earlier. I don't want to rip open old wounds.

Rats.

Honestly, if you're not paying attention to the vidding world at large, and only basing those feelings on a couple select places (you know where I meaan) you're not seeing the full scope of what gets recognition. So I could see how it might seem like a very biased world out there. But the truth is that amazing videos are amazing whether or not they're full of flashy effects. Some of the best vids I've seen, and some of the most lauded (most commented, most respected) vids are vids that are simple and don't use many or any noticeable effects.

Maybe... you need a new crowd? *shrug*

That sounds so stupid. And I get where the frustration is coming from. I really do. I'm just not sure "effects" is really the big bad that people like to make it out to be.

[turquoisetumult.livejournal.com]

Hey, you just focus on recovering, okay. :)

You brought up some good points. And I do think my knowledge of vids is pretty limited due to the fact that my fandoms/TV shows are limited too. Plus, I feel like I just needed to vent and I didn't realize so many people would take me/the topic so seriously...

[lim.livejournal.com]

People *totally* say the vids using effects are trash, or soulless, or otherwise fannishly suspect. They're just not like *us*, you see, dearie. SUSPECT. LIKE A WITCH WITH HER TRICKS AND HER FLASHBANGS.

Oh, the no-effects people used to irritate the piss out of me but then I realised I was just taking on their problem, you know? Effects/no-effects are a non-issue to me; I can't even work out why it's a debate. Consequently, I have added it to t big list o' Vidder Angst I Do Not Have The Mental Space For. See also: clip theft, song choice politics, source quality, encoding, comment counts...

You know what I get preposterously worked up over? Reverie folk posting their locked forum activities on vidding. Ooooh! Flames! Flames at the side of my face! *grins* I think we all need something to be comically rageful about prolly.

[morgandawn.livejournal.com]

complaining about effects (or the lack thereof) in a vid makes just about as much sense as complaining that some cakes use too much of one ingredient (too much sugar! too much flour! too much butter!) When in the end it is the whole list of the ingredients, the recipe, the skill of the baker and the oven that makes a good vid - errrr cake.

[lim.livejournal.com]

It really makes as much sense as never making chocolate cake because someone else made it badly (or a third doesn't like it at all).

[morgandawn.livejournal.com]

mods. or they'd be crying: "oh noes. I left the cake out in the rain. And I'll never have that recipe agaaaaain!"

[crickets.livejournal.com]

Hahah your cake analogy is so right on! Love it!

(Also, now I want cake. Thanks!)

[crickets.livejournal.com]

Sorry it's taken so long to get back to you on this. I have been in and out of the hospital. Ugh. Real life, go away!

And yeah! It's pretty much a non-issue for me as well. I mean I guess the argument was a new one on me, but in a general "vidding philosophy" kind of way for me it's all about concept and execution and not really the road you take to get there, just that you do? (Well, maybe the road is a little important...?) I have seen good and bad across the board, vids with a myriad of effects and vids with none. IMO you can't fabricate a good vid either way. So... in that way it's a total non-issue.

Hehehe, Clue references! You win! Oh, Mrs. White.

And I think your vids are definitely some I'd point to and say, "See? Not so evil!"

Maybe it's all about figuring out why certain thins are the way they are and pointing fingers to explain away certain truths... why didn't this vid do better? Why did this vid do so well? But I don't even know if there are true ways to quantify that... and I don't really spend my time trying to otherwise I might go nuts and start pointing fingers as well.

Maybe it's all in how you perceive it. If you want it to be a big bad competition, then it will be.

The only person I'm comfortable being in competition with is myself. (ETA: Added you.)

[scully1121.livejournal.com]

i think that there are so great vid without effetcs, and you have to be really good at using them to make a cool video. That's why i used not often effects lol
aaarh i hate when i can't exprim myself cause of my bad english :S

and i'm agree with the fact that the comments on a youtube video does not reflect the quality of the vid !

[crickets.livejournal.com]

I do agree that knowing how to use effects well has a lot to do with whether or not it works. Which, is why, honestly, I think it really has everything to do with each individual vid. If you play service to the vid with your effects (rather than your vid playing service to the effects) then I think that's what truly makes for a winning combination. I mostly just use coloring because well... I think it looks pretty, darnit. Hehehe. But mostly? I'm not huge with effects. Hahaha. It's like pulling teeth to get me to use them.

youtube = pootube

[starrylizard.livejournal.com]

Oh I totally agree. Some of the comments that have been going round have been quite harsh, when really it's not a question of either/or and more a question of personal taste.

[crickets.livejournal.com]

I think it's the same old story. I was reading some meta from a more "seasoned" vidder and they mentioned how vidders were pretty put out or... I dunno... annoyed? When WMM became readily available on computers and a ton of new vidders started cropping up and they didn't put any thought into what they were doing, etc. So if it's not one thing... it's another!